Why do I have Y-DNA matches that don't have the same surname as me?
This is a common question that is asked when people first get their Y-DNA results. And there are several explanations for it. The Y-DNA test only compares Y chromosome DNA to other Y chromosome DNA. A “match” between two men usually means one of three Scenarios (bear in mind there are exceptions to every general rule):
Scenario 1.
The two men are related via a common ancestor who lived some time since the appearance of surnames (e.g. within the last 1000 years or so in Britain & Ireland). And there are several sub-scenarios in this situation:
The two men are related via a common ancestor who lived some time since the appearance of surnames (e.g. within the last 1000 years or so in Britain & Ireland). And there are several sub-scenarios in this situation:
a) the two men have the same surname - in which case, they are probably related via a common ancestor (who bore that same surname) some time within the last c.1000 years. This is the scenario we are most interested in and forms the basis of surname studies.
b) the two men have different surnames - in which case an NPE may be present i.e. Non-Paternity Event (or Not the Parent Expected). In other words, both men have a common ancestor within the last c.1000 years, but the surname on ONE of their lines (we don’t know which one) has changed over the years because of a secret adoption, or infidelity, or illegitimacy, etc. Postscript: as mentioned in the Comments below, there are many other possible causes for "surname discontinuity". For example, some families adopted new surnames after emigrating to the US, changing the name to perhaps sound more English. And of course some societies adopted inherited surnames quite late (e.g. Turkey in 1934) or not at all (e.g. Iceland, Tibet).
Scenario 2.
The two men are related before the appearance of surnames (e.g. pre-1000 AD) - in this scenario, the two men will have different surnames (with rare exceptions). This scenario can arise where there has been very little mutation in the DNA over the course of the last c.1000 years or so. Or where there has been a degree of Convergence (see below).
Scenario 3.
The two men are related but much further back then they look. This is because of Convergence, where the two genetic profiles were identical 10,000 years ago (for example), but then mutate away from each other gradually over the millennia, and then (by chance) start mutating back towards each other so that it looks like the common ancestor is closer than he is (say 500 years ago rather than 10,000 years ago). Convergence is still being studied and not a huge amount is known about how commonly it is encountered. It is likely that it is more common in some haplogroup subclades than in others.
So in the situation where a man matches a man with a different surname, these are either cases of Scenario 1b (NPE) or Scenario 2 (pre-surname match) or Scenario 3 (Convergence). How can you distinguish between these three scenarios? Not easily, but there are certain clues that can help.
If one of the men matches other people with his surname, then it is less likely that his particular surname is the result of an NPE. And if the other man matches nobody with his surname (and there are people with his surname in the FTDNA database that he could potentially match), then the likelihood that an NPE has occurred somewhere along that man's direct male line is higher. On the other hand, if both men match others with their surname, then perhaps this is a case of Convergence.
If the two men have tested to 37 markers (or higher) and are exact matches, then this makes Scenario 1b more likely (i.e. an NPE has occurred somewhere in the past). The likelihood increases if there is an exact match at 67 markers or 111 markers. And on the contrary, the less close the match is (say 4/37 or 3/37), then the more likely this is a case of Scenario 2 (pre-surname match) or Scenario 3 (Convergence).
Looking at the terminal SNP results of a man's matches may give a clue as to which of the three scenarios is most likely to be present. You can examine the terminal SNPs of a man's matches (at the 111 marker level down to the 25 marker level) and see which SNPs are most common among his matches. Then by plotting these SNPs on the haplotree* you can get some indication whether or not there is evidence of Convergence (i.e. the SNPs fall onto different branches of the haplotree) or no evidence of Convergence (all of the SNPs fall onto the same branch of the haplotree). If there is no evidence of Convergence, then this makes Scenarios 1b or Scenario 2 more likely. In the example below, the terminal SNPs of a man's matches all fall below SNP L226, suggesting that he and his matches all sit on the L226 branch of the haplotree. However, there may be some Convergence further downstream, as two of his matches sit on different branches below SNP FGC5628.
Performing additional downstream SNP testing (e.g. a SNP Pack or Big Y test) will help differentiate between the three scenarios. Here is what you might expect:
Scenario 1b (NPE) - the two men sit on the same downstream branch that is associated with the surname of one of them. The age of the common SNP might be somewhere in the last 1000-2000 years.Scenario 2 (pre-surname match) - the two men sit on the same branch upstream (i.e. representative of a major subclade of the haplogroup, say L226). The age of the common SNP might be somewhere in the last 2000-8000 years.Scenario 3 (Convergence) - the two men sit on completely different (i.e. very distantly related) branches of the haplotree and the common SNP is (say) >8000 years old.
If a recent NPE is suspected, autosomal DNA testing can help establish if the two men are closely related (i.e. within the past 5 generations or so).
Using these techniques will help distinguish between the three possible scenarios but in many cases there is unlikely to be a single definitive test that will give you the answer. The best you might be able to hope for is that taking all the evidence together, the balance of probabilities points toward a particular scenario as being the most likely.
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| Example: Plotting terminal SNP results of a man's matches shows that they all fall below SNP L226 (i.e. no evidence of Convergence before SNP FGC5628) (click to enlarge) |
When we can have more men in our surname project on the same playing field of DNA testing, it is going to answer this kind of question, as you suggest. We have already begun doing just that. What a well written blog on DNA and Family Tree Research! I hope others may share this as a learning tool with their group project members, including ours?
ReplyDeletePatty and variant spellings, now including Petty is our surname project.
A note to scenario 1, in some parts of Europe fixed surnames only became common after the 1500s and in some cases even much later. That means some people are out of luck with relying on surnames with patronyms need a very solid paper trail to find a connection, add to that the difficulty of common name combinations in larger towns, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
ReplyDeleteI don't have those difficulties with my research (surnames and no patronyms); I know for a fact my line has a documented NPE (or in this case NO paternal event), but I have no close matches so I have no idea where to continue the research. I'm just hoping for a close match someday to find a clue for the papertrail research.
Very true. My focus is largely on Irish genealogy so most of my ancestors would have surnames that originated around about 1000 AD and which would have come into common usage a century or two later. But, as you say, in many places inherited surnames were adopted relatively late. There are parts of Wales where they were only accepted in the mid-1800's. And there are certain parts of the world where they have not been adopted at all.
DeleteMaurice, This is a nicely succinct and helpful summary of a common question I get. I intend to make your summary available to members of our Rothwell surname group. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteThanks, William. :-)
DeleteThanks Wayne - good point. I have added a note to the body of the text above.
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly what I needed, as this is a situation I'm currently tackling. Thanks a mil!
ReplyDeleteIn scenario 1 it`s possible there could be NPEs in both lines to the common ancestor.
ReplyDeleteWe are having this problem and it never occurred to me that both matches could have a NPE event. My worst fear is that there have been so many intermarriages on both sides of my family during the settling of this country--not recently, but most likely further back--that somehow my mother's ancestral surnames are showing up in my brother's Y-DNA test...
DeleteThe Y chromosome is only inherited by a male child. It is passed down from father to son to son to son to present day males. Are mutations but not that drastic like changing complete cross over to another haplo group or STR. Unless some one here has documentation to prove that which I was told to be false. My brother also matches a lot of other surnames on the FTDNA site. He matched over 70 males, also different surnames, on www.Ancestry.com site before they blew off both the Y and mt DNA data base public charts and ALL linked programs several years ago. Very DUMB DUMB DUMB. Now could use that information to cross reference all the autosomal matching going on. (My feeling anyway.) He matches 6 others on our surname MILLS on the FTDNA site. He also matches many other surnames on the site. from GD 0 to GD 2. Not all have shared their trees, and some are not back far enough to see the MRCA. Have been able to expand some trees from various sites and through correspondence. But NOT all know much more than their parents names. Makes it very difficult.
DeleteInteresting article. I am a Marshall, matching no other Marshalls (and there are many). I have a 65/67 match with a Harrison surname. The Harrison match doesn't match any known Harrisons (and there are plenty). So neither of us match our given surname, but we match each other. Anyone want to speculate? -John
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSame here John. I would really appreciate any ideas at this moment.
DeleteDepending on your area of ancestors lived, etc. Can check the 'Bastardy Files' in the probate or common pleas courts. May find some thing way. One fellow who is a MILLS by paper trail found his 'true' surname. He did NOT match his cousins by DNA testing. BIG SURPRISE to him/family. I still welcome him in the Greater MILLS tree. Once a MILLS always a MILLS. : )
DeleteDid you take into account that many mothers gave their own surname to their children rather than that of the father? This has been the case in my family.
ReplyDeleteMatronymic naming patterns occur in several cultures and are another potential cause of "surname discontinuity". There is an interesting article about them here ...
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matronymic
True Found one of those stories too. In this case the love of her life promised her the world. They were together long enough to have 2 children. One day he comes home and says, "Sorry am returning to my wife and family.Father in Law promised him BIG MONEY. BYE." She went back home to her father and mother on the farm. Grandpa says NO WAY those kids are having that you now what's name. Gave them his name. Later when she married again, on the ensuing census are listed first with the 2nd husband's surname and later when he died, they are listed as her surname. Very confusing and real challenge to track all that down. This all now from memory, lost that computer in a move/crashed. Sources, etc. Not sure if there was also court records of paternity involved. Different MILLS line. (at least by Y DNA testing again.)
DeleteDoes anyone know the software used to create the phylotree?
ReplyDeleteYou could contact Alex Williamson directly and ask him. You'll find his email on his website ...
Deletewww.ytree.net
A very interesting article indeed. May I also suggest a 4. scenario. If you would have scandinavian ancestry, the surename would not be the same along the Y-line. In scandinavia we had patronymicons, men and women had only firstnames by birth, and kept their fathers first name and added sen/son and datter/dotter, to mark the kinship. For example Ola Hanssen/Hanson.
ReplyDeleteThanks for that. Patronymic naming patterns are another cause of "surname discontinuity". I think we need to devote a whole article to the topic and make a comprehensive list of the possible causes of NPE's and "surname discontinuity". I'm looking forward to the new post already!
DeleteHi my dad I was born in Albania what used to be a part of Greece he says he is Greek,I think there are other ethnicities. My mom's sister's husband did some genealogy on her side we know we have German and Irish he had to stop the search I hear we might have Native American and possibly other ethnicities what is the least expensive way to find out this information can I do it with just one test?
DeleteHi my dad I was born in Albania what used to be a part of Greece he says he is Greek,I think there are other ethnicities. My mom's sister's husband did some genealogy on her side we know we have German and Irish he had to stop the search I hear we might have Native American and possibly other ethnicities what is the least expensive way to find out this information can I do it with just one test?
DeleteCan do an autosomal DNA test (Ancestry.com) or Family Finder on www.familytree.com) or other DNA testing sites, Be sure you can transfer the results to other sites.) and then transfer results to www.GEDMATCH.com and run the Admixture report with Oracle. Does define the all the tidbits into a pie chart. Some have very colorful ones.
Delete"The two men are related before the appearance of surnames (i.e. pre-1000 AD)" - Most surnames date back to the 15th to 17th century. The connection might be somewhere in the late Middle Ages, not necessarely before 1000 AD!
ReplyDeleteGood point. My focus is primarily on Irish & British names, which emerged about 700-1000 years ago. However, the adoption of inherited surnames varied from region to region.
DeleteWhether or not a man who has an NPE in his ancestry matches others with his same surname depends greatly on how many generations back the NPE occurred. In our family we have an NPE that occurred over 5 generations ago snd there are many matches of the same surname but all connected to that same ancester 5 generations back. But of course these men also match many more men of a second surname of the male line prior to the NPE.
ReplyDeleteExcellent point, Nancy.
DeleteThe incidence of NPE's is estimated to be about 1% per generation, and if surnames arose (in Ireland for example) 1000 years ago, that would mean that the chances of genetic discontinuity with that surname over those 1000 years is somewhere around 30-40% (allowing 33.3 and 25 years per generation to make the maths easy). In other words, the chances that the DNA currently associated with any (Irish) surname originated with the originator of the surname is only about 60-70%.
And that NPE could have happened anywhere within the last 1000 years - 900 years ago or 90 years ago. And the older the NPE, the more likely there will be descendants carrying the introgressive Y-DNA today. As research progresses, It will be very interesting to see if we can identify "Ancient NPEs". I'm sure they are a lot more common than people imagine.
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ReplyDeleteSurname patterns are often very irregular with reference to African Americans, in part (but not always) because of the enslavement experience. I know in my own direct paternal lineage three brothers assumed different surnames. So, tracking paternal lineages by surname can be futile to a certain degree. This is equally the case on my maternal side tracing an indirect paternal lineage. One brother assumed "Aldridge" and the another "Hadley". For us, relying on direct lineage surnames can be tricky and not always the best method for tracing ancestry.
ReplyDeleteFor most African Americans, any family surname that may have existed before the arrival of their ancestors in America has been lost. The only case I know of (and there may be some other rare examples) is the intriguing story of Joe Mozingo, a Los Angeles reporter, who traced his surname back to an African named Edward Mozingo who gained his freedom in 1672 in Virginia. Joe also travels back to Africa and finds that forms of the surname are still in use today. The story is brilliantly told in his engaging book "The Fiddler on Pantico Run" ... http://www.amazon.com/Fiddler-Pantico-Run-African-Descendants/dp/1451627483
DeleteThank you for reply back. Yes, are many reasons and circumstances that surnames have been changed over time. But for the most part, mine are some what related to each other. At least by allied and related family trees, it would appear. Just have to put them together and track them. Is laborious I know. There are rape, incest, bigamy, desertion, or like Gerald FORD, admiration of his step father, etc. Guardianship's or just plain friendship, as well.
ReplyDeleteFor African Americans who descend from a white male and a black female from before Emancipation (as one of my family lines does), the surname, in most cases, will be that of the mother. The same would be true in cases of rape by a known or unknown predator. Even after emancipation, many states had laws against mixed marriage, although there we many interracial relationships which carried on (or started) well past the Civil War's end. There are many scenarios, like these, which have resulted in entire lines of families carrying the surname of a matriarch, because (for whatever the reason) children were born out of wedlock. None of these reasons equates to an NPE. Just wanting to point this out.
ReplyDeleteYou have just given me an excellent reason to consider this as a real possibility. But if this were the case, would my family show African ethnicity in the past 80-100 years? This is the length of time estimated for the common ancestor in my brother's Y-DNA result. None of my immediate family show African ancestry, although a few of my cousins show trace African ancestry, and I have found 13 African American cousins whose ancestors most probably married before emancipation, like you say.
DeleteI take it you did Family Finder or an autosomal DNA test on ancestry site? Have you shared/transferred your results to www.GEDMATCH.com site. A FREE site. Can run the Admixture with Oracle reports. Defines your tiny bits of deep ancestral DNA. It is said that to match the DNA reduces as you go back in time, 50 per cent from each parent, 25 per cent, 12.5, 6.25 and so on back in time, As you go back in time, each set of parents have contributed to the line of family. I think the count of greats is 168 people. Multiple of 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc, All have input into the "Stew". Agree with you. My brother had a match on Ancestry site, several years ago for Y DNA. ALLEN, I think was the surname. We corresponded and he was able to identify either his grand or great grand mother, and then her ancestor line back to a Slave Owner in Virginia, who was the father of the child. Yes, the mother gave her surname of ALLEN to the child/children. I was not able to figure out the link between that male line and my MILLS as yet. (moved and other things got in the way.) But had to be farther back in time. Am back to ca 1605 of Jamaica, L I, N Y USA d; 1674 on our MILLS surname.
DeleteMy great great gradmother was the wife of Richard O'Farrel what we need to do for DNA testing.
ReplyDeleteHi Tania, if you have male Farrell cousins, start off by doing the Y-DNA-37 test.
DeleteIt's been thought that my mom's "physical" father is not the man her mother was married to. (All are deceased). Paternal side of my mom's family (by marriage) is from Ireland (migrated through Canada) and appears from ancestry tracing that the link is very clear back to Ireland. We think that the man who fathered my mother is American Native (Upper Peninsula of Michigan). What is the best test I can take to show American Native lineage and that might disprove lineage on the paternal side from Ireland?
ReplyDeleteI was looking for information on Haplo FGC10117 and ran across your comment on Farrow/Farrell made last year. I was recently put into that group as the result of a BigY test, the results of which are currently being analyzed. Did not know where to post this for your Farrell in FGC10117 shoebox. OUt of 25000 folks on my tree I have both Farrow and Farrell. However, the closest is a first cousin of a 1C6XR named Jane Farrow 1802 to 1865 married to a David West in 1818 b 1787 Maryland d 1868 North Carolina. Given I can't get my surname MItchell past 1791 it is hard to say if there are other connections I don't know about yet. Like I said, he can shoebox this info in the event something shows up later. Sorry if this is a little too speculative for purposes of your blog. BTW, only one distant Mitchell line out of thousands of matches. Most are Campbell, Thompson, Rayburn, McCutcheon, Gillespie. Kit 8817.
ReplyDeleteIf you haven't done so already, you should join the Farrell DNA Project here ... www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?act=groupjoin&group=Farrell
DeleteLooking for Grandfather Smith lineage. Had one Uncle tested at 23and me. No surname matches. But interestingly 4 differentnsurnames show up on one chromosone (lg segs). I have reversed searched the names in GEDmatch, viewed many trees and have found a common pattern. I have been able to link these surnames with a female Smith-between 1700 and 1900. Could be some Maternal nae-changing. But it seems significant to me that these 4 surnames all show a maternal Smith. And to make it even more confusing. There are Smith lines in both Maternal and Paternal Grandparents.They appear to come from the same Smith lineage. What a haystack. Next option - have my Uncle do a Y-37 test. any other ideas out there. My reverse search was through the function in GEDmatch with these 4 surnames and then sub searching the Smith name, then using the User lookup function to see if any DNA is in the GEDcom. Then a one to one match. Have found some Smiths-very distant, but sharing the same Y. I believe I have a start point?? Thanks satinhorseswon@aol.com
ReplyDeleteMy experience is that getting a match on the surname is the exception. I am involved with testing men on 8 different surnames (my side and my husband's). Only for 2 of the surnames did the men tested get matches to men of the same surname (apart from men I had specifically asked to test).
ReplyDeleteI really like the visual in 1b of two men sitting on the same downstream branch....
ReplyDeleteWHAT IS A 'REVERSE SEARCH' AT GEDMATCH? HOW IS THIS DONE?
ReplyDeleteI would like to know this as well.
DeleteMy uncle has some Y-DNA matches with the same surname but others who have surnames that match town names in Yorkshire near where we know his male ancestral line to be living around 1700. Neither the ones with the same surname nor the ones with the town-name surnames match closer than a Genetic Distance of 9 at 111 markers. I am wondering if "John of Lockwood" became "John Lockwood" at some point in the last few hundred years.
ReplyDeleteFirst check out the Y DNA matches on your family surname (your Father or if is husband's tree) and see any have a family tree. Check out the ancestor names. Do any of them tie into your tree/paper trail? 2. Do the TIP calculator on the FTDNA site. Gives you an idea of how far back the match may be. These will be ALL male links. If have not yet done any Y testing, it would appear that start out with 67 markers or more. (of course which ever can afford. I did not realize how expensive they have become). Join your surname Project. And also the Haplo Group/STR Project. Presently there is NO SITE to compare Y DNA any more. the www.Ysearch.org site was taken down earlier this year because of the GSK Killer of Sacramento and EU issues. Am hoping that it will come back better at some future point. Hopefully. You can reference manually if know any Y DNA Info onto the GEDMATCH file But is only input manually. Next best thing would be to do the Family Finder or the autosomal DNA test on www.Ancestry.com site. and then transfer to other sites. TO Fish all the ponds to find matches/cousins.
ReplyDeleteWhat a great article. I am trying to figure out whether I have an NPE or Convergence or other. My Y-group is R-M269 which I understand is very common. My surname should show up as Craven but I only have Mashburn and one Greer Y match. Could this just be convergence from many many years back or is there something else I need to look at? When I look on the Craven surname study with FTDNA I see there are Craven matches but only back to about the 4th or 5th great grandfather. I am still trying to figure out closest possible common ancestor. Thank you
ReplyDeleteThank you. It is very difficult to distinguish between an NPE and Convergence. You have several options to try to establish a Craven link:
Delete1) upgrade to 111 markers on your Y-DNA and hope to connect with a match that you are not seeing at the 37 marker level. The genetic distance here will be 5/111 or greater, suggesting a connection several hundred years ago, possibly in the 1700s, 1600s or 1500s.
2) do the Big Y test and see where this places you on the Tree of Mankind. This may give you some idea if you are connected to another Craven or not
3) ask the Admin of the Craven DNA Project for help
4) Use autosomal DNA to push back an extra generation on your Craven line
Thank you for the information. Yes I have upgraded to the 111. I have one match at 111 which is Greer. The other surname is Mashburn at the 67 and 37 tests. I have added the backbone SNP test. I will have to save up for the big Y. THank you for your help.
ReplyDeleteI had my dad do a Y DNA 37 test because our Bolt line hits a brick wall in 1800. He has 6 matches - 4 with the last name Abercrombie, one with the last name Crombie and one with the last name Lindley. He matches five of them at a genetic distance of 4 and they all have the same haplogroup: E-L117. He matches the sixth guy at a genetic distance of 3 and they have the same haplogroup: E-M35. I'm not sure what this is supposed to tell me? Is our name really Abercrombie? And what does it mean for him to match the one guy closer and with the same haplogroup but not the others? I'd appreciate any help. I have been researching but am still unsure what i'm supposed to infer from this.
ReplyDeleteMy colleague Katherine Borges runs the Bolt DNA Project and you should definitely join that. She has a wealth of knowledge and is based placed to advise you on the interpretation of your results. She may even know precisely why you have a match to the people you mention above.
DeleteYou can find Katherine's contact details here ... https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/bolt/about
To Unknown 20 March 2019 at 4:06.
ReplyDeleteYou did not put where they lived. May be that they children were raised by a relative. So look to see where they lived, with who, grand parents or aunts and uncles. Bad in the old days, adoption was not always a complete legal paper thing. Or if was an epidemic may have been taken by neighboring family, on farm, etc. Would look at any census pages where your ancestors are listed. See who else lived near them. will get a picture of who were related and or living near your ancestor/family. I would look at the closest matches on the Y DNA first. and try to contact them (if will share their tree with you) find them on a family tree if possible.(Hopefully, your matches do have a pretty good tree. If not you may have to add to their tree to see where it may connect to yours. You may have to extend/expand yours as well. Could be a pedigree collapse type thing, too. Where cousins married cousins in the same tree. Shares same grand or great grand parents. Criss crossing happened a lot in small towns/villages. Not a lot to pick from girl/boy friends wise. If have a 'bastardy file' (legally(forced into) establishing paternity) in the probate court records/civil or common pleas. One fellow found his true paternal descent that way. He was NOT a MILLS after all, but an ELLISON. Could not figure out why he did NOT match his known cousins. Yes, definitely try to find any trees that have your matched males line of descent. Look for any marriages of the shared surnames around them. It may be that the young lady had a promise to marry and the fellow strung her along, and then abandoned her and the child/children. (one lady 2 kids before he showed his true colors and went back to his first wife (money and land were dangled by the first as such father In law) one fellows situation was bigamy and the other they never got married, he just kept promising her.) Some things never change no matter the time frame) Can look on browser search for what the Haplo group tells you. and the str AND snp meanings. How they group it on the ISOOG web site. Has more through details. the testing today is a lot more in depth than when my brother did his test in 2004. And since a LOT more are testing. If can refine out to as far as you afford, some are going for the BIG 500/now700. Again, the more you test the more refined and closer the matches will be. Wish I could see the public chart? if there is one for my MILLS guys. Where they all are grouped now. If no luck all that, do the Family Finder test on FTDNA site. And or on Ancestry.com. Check the shared matches. That helps to group your matches to paternal or maternal. Can get help from DNA Detectives with doing a Mirror tree using your shared matches trees. Your Y DNA situation may be farther back than 3 or 4 generations. FF/autosomal goes back to 4th to 6th generations on matching.
I just turned 60 years old and discovered last year my great grandfather was a foster child and my present surname is not my biological surname. Big Y-700 results revealed me matching two men with different surnames. Person A (60 years old) with 2 STR differences out of 570 and a genetic distance of 3. Person B (68 years old) with 3 STR differences out of 626 and a genetic distance of 4. I also match Person A's deceased father at Y 67, genetic distance of 1. I match Person B at Y-67 with a genetic distance of 0. So, I actually moved closer to Person A at Y-111. I also am an autosomal match with two cousins of Person A. On the Y Tree Person A and I are in a subclade of our own while Person B is one subclade upstream. If I understand it correctly, Person A and I are at our terminal SNP and I must carry his surname if there is no NPE. The only people downstream of Person A and myself would be our sons????? I would appreciate any feedback. My email is: wvbicycle@gmail.com. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteHi Cliff
DeleteSo to summarise ...
Person A is a GD of 2/111 and a total GD of 5 / 681
His father has a GD 1/67
there is an atDNA match to 2 cousins
Person B GD 0/67, 4/111, total 7 / 737
Person A is on a SNP-defined branch downstream of B (but no estimated dates are provided)
So clearly you are very closely related to both men, but are closer to Person A. The common ancestor is probably at the level of 4th-6th cousin, given that you match the 2 cousins of Person A. Are they related to him via his Direct Male Line ancestors?
Do A and B have the same surname? If so, then this should be the surname of your genetic ancestors on your direct male line.
There may be many people on the same branch as you and Person A … they just haven’t tested yet. And there may be several more downstream branches below where you currently sit (especially if you have a lot of Private / Unique SNPs). This will become more clear as more people test.
If you are Haplogroup R, you should upload your results to the Big Tree and join the relevant Haplogroup Projects.
Hope this helps. :-)